Curse

jesh · Oct 12, 2005, 06:22 PM // 18:22

I've been wanting to make a warrior for a long time, I think I'm going to delete my elmo for him. Anyway, I was planning on doing a w/n with curses, but then I wanted to try death/blood/tactics, for a stance+aura of the lich+dark bond.. Then I realised that I can't get aura of the lich until hell's precipice.

So right now.. I'm kinda stuck. I was thinking about doing a w/e, since I'll have more tanking spells to start off, but I don't know. I guess I'm just wondering what would be more effective for the first stages of the game, I can always switch secondary later on for aura+bond.

Second question- what would be the best way to feed those two enchants on a warrior? They're both 10 energy, and I'd have to have at least 2 minions, most likely, to make use of dark bond. Maybe it would be a better idea to use a n/w..?

3rd- I'm assuming for a w/e the best way to get energy would be to use bonneti's defense, and hope for the best.. or is there another way? Ether prodigy, maybe?

4th- Since this will be a pve only char, I'm not sure what I should do on my armor, either. Gladiator's is probably the best.. right? Plate might be better in the long run, because of the higher base AL, therefor less damage from elemental attacks... and of course I need a knight's piece.. Any experienced warriors want to shed some light on this? I've decided warriors are fugly anyway, so I've given up on chosing armor for looks.

5th- Axe or sword? I'd get the ripostes for sword, but one of those takes energy, and I don't know how effective they are for getting mobbed.. axe would give me cyclone for instant adrenaline. Which would be more useful for a tank like I want to make? Chances are, I won't have over 12 in my weapon attribute, but that has yet to be determined.

Alexandria Kotov · Oct 12, 2005, 07:08 PM // 19:08

Not a pro by any means, but I've beaten every aspect of the PvE game, including every single Elite capped, with my W/X, so... This is just opinion and observation.

1) W/X will carry you through most of the game, and will get you at least as far as Augury, seeing as the first 3/4 of the game is stupidly easy anyway. W/Mo is probably the easiest to use, but W/N is probably the best early game damage dealer. It hardly matters, W/X is powerful in the early PVE game, and by the time actually builds really really matter, you'll have ascended and will be able to change. Note, however, that W/R makes a great runner.

2) You'll be fine. Realize you'll never have energy, wear mostly gladiators armor, and if you insist on focusing on two maintenance enchants, or two 10-cast repeat use ones, you'll have to run Adrenaline skills for the most park. Berzerker Stance and a sword/axe will make that possible.

3) Bonetti's defense is a fantastic way for a tank to get energy in PvE, especially since a good Cyclone Axe can feed it until your nukers or dmg dealers kill your foes off.

4) The various AL mods on the armor doesn't compare whatsoever to the NRG boosts from Glads. Most everyone wears Gladiators Chest and leggings, with your weapon choice for helmet, Absorption boots, and either glads for gloves, or stonefist ones if you're going knockdown hammer. So... in short, use Glads except for specific peices for specific uses.

5) Axe or Sword depends on what you want to do. Sword can now deal a good amount of damage to a single target in very short time, but Axe has better crowd control (and is better for a tank) and is also better in the adrenaline skills (Opinion, no flames!). I usually use an Axe, despite having a perfect sword, and only a near-perfect axe.

Yeah. All my opinion, hardly an authoratitive source, and... since this is all opinion, let me give my final one. W/Ne's are the most fun for me.

crimsonfilms · Oct 12, 2005, 07:42 PM // 19:42

to add to Axe or Sword

Axe and sword have the same speed.
Axe has higher damage limit BUT also lower damage floor. So it evens out.
The difference is really skills. Axe has Eviscerate, Penetrating Chop, Executioners strike and etc to deal damage.
Sword has Hundred Blades, Galrath and Final Thrust.
Final Thrust is only worth it if you hit when health is under 50%.

a_scrawny_gnoll01 · Oct 12, 2005, 08:51 PM // 20:51

Axe works better overall, as like you stated; cyclone is massive adrenaline. Follow that with bonneti's and your mana is capped. Effective for soloing with a /mo secondary with smites, as it is also effective with jumping that mana bar up to follow with /ne secondary as it is needed.
Sword skills are very lacking, as hundred blades is relatively not worth it in most scenarios. Eviscerate, however, is great for the instant deep wound and potential axe rake for a cripple, or axe twist for a weakness; pending on your scenario.

Axe, in most cases, is far better than a sword; in my opinion of course.

jesh · Oct 12, 2005, 09:42 PM // 21:42

I didn't want this to be an axe vs sword debate.. I was basically just wondering whether the extra adrenaline from cyclone would be better than reposte/deadly reposte, or visa verca. I could care less about eviscerate vs hundred blades, as I will be TANKING. I want the monsters to fruitlessly throw themselves against my armor.. other people can do the killing.

PS - Notice I said I'll have 12 at most in my weapon attribute.. that means less crits, which would definitely cut down on the effectiveness of the axe, right? The sword still has the higher base damage, so it might be better suited for my purposes?

Once again, I don't know what I'm talking about, feel free to correct me.

AeroLion · Oct 12, 2005, 10:11 PM // 22:11

If all you're concerned with is tanking then you don't need the extra adrenaline from cyclone. You'll probably be relying on tactics and/or your secondary class to mitigate damage. So you'll be wanting as much energy as you can with this character.

jesh · Oct 13, 2005, 12:50 AM // 00:50

Bonetti's Defense needs adrenaline. Quite a bit.

AeroLion · Oct 13, 2005, 01:23 AM // 01:23

Bonetti's is only for physical attacks. You can't depend on that to do any reliable tanking or energy gain. You're better of running high tactics, grabbing the stances that give +AL, and using Armor of Earth with an Earth attribute of 8 or so.

jesh · Oct 13, 2005, 04:43 AM // 04:43

Decided on w/n.. now I just need to chose a weapon. Yukitoooooo...

a_scrawny_gnoll01 · Oct 13, 2005, 05:08 AM // 05:08

Im not trying to pull this into debate, all I'm saying is that an axe is better for tanking, because cyclone can build up your adrenaline for bonettis much faster than any sword skill.

Rico Carridan · Oct 13, 2005, 06:09 AM // 06:09

Honestly, for a weapon, especially early on, take whatever weapon you can find that you can get with low req and high damage. You don't have many skills really early on, and the damage difference in the weapons doesn't become noticeable until you and the monsters are both at a level >15 I would say. I mean really, doing 45 damage on a charr with a max sword isn't wholly different from doing 65 with a max hammer, when you consider how much life the things have.

Rico

Yukito Kunisaki · Oct 13, 2005, 02:37 PM // 14:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by jesh

Decided on w/n.. now I just need to chose a weapon. Yukitoooooo...

It is I...

I only give advice objectively vs. subjectively. The raving egotistical maniac in me says GO AXE YA MORON!!!

But to be honest, go with the weapon you want to run with. If you're intent on tanking, sword beats axe. I say this because of the Ripostes. As tank, you're going to be buried to your neck in both melee, ranged, and magical attacks so Shield's Up!! combined with Bonetti's makes for a near invincible build...

W/N

I heard you wanted to do minions? I've got 3 words for ya:

Don't do it...

Believe me I've tried SOOO many different combinations of skills and it just won't work out. AT all... I'm not going to say you HAVE to wear a focus/Glad Armor because if a certain build won't allow flexibility, to me, that's just inefficiency at its worst and doesn't deserve a 2nd thought... A Summoning Warrior is just that. Inefficiency incarnate. Kind of like W/R but at least a W/R can kill conditions for free...

If you want to tank, seriously, then I say go with Sword. You'll be dealing with high AL enemies and sword can combat that using a much higher base damage over the axe's puny 6... This is especially good since you said you won't be going 16 in your weapon...

DO NOT CONSIDER warrior at all if you're not going to go AT LEAST 12 in your weapon attribute. 10+1+1 is my absolute minimum UNLESS I'm going for a warrior build whose weapon isn't meant for killing. [hidden healer W/Mo anyone?] I've come up with a few builds for W/Mo using 16 str and War's Endurance but that's beside the point...

For now, you say you want to tank in PvE and you'll be tanking high AL enemies using 12 Swordsmanship. 12 Swords is far more beneficial than 12 Axe...

Now for your secondary, tell me if you're Bloody Sword, Death Sword [no minions], or Cursed Sword...

jesh · Oct 13, 2005, 05:28 PM // 17:28

I was thinking of curses.. or blood.. blood seems very ineffecient to me, though. There are a couple skills, (demonic flesh, blood renewal), that seem almost MEANT for a warrior, but I'm not sure that there's much potential in that.
Curses is more like.. "What do I *not* need there?"

Mark of pain, barbs, enfeebling blood, shadow of fear.. so much. Virulence is okay for pvp, I guess, but really I think curses is more effective. Please smack me if I'm wrong.

Since I'll be going sword, what's the most efficient way to get adrenaline? I had thought of flurry and For Great Justice, but FGJ costs a lot, and flurry seems.. like there could be something better. The long recharge on Beserker's Stance seems to make it less appealing.. what else is there? What would suit my purposes best?

Wah.. guess I'm giving up on my minion idea.. maybe when the new classes come out next year, I can do something crazy.

Lastly, I need to decide on an elite. For this warrior, I've decided I want to have fun, and try out both 14/16 tactics, and 14/16 strength. Hey, it's PvE, how bad can it be? I was thinking gladiator's defense would be almost manditory.. but there are some other elites that seem like they'd work good as well, or at least be funny. Like Grenth's Balance. I don't really want hundred blades for obvious reasons.. that leaves me a lot of room.

By the way, thank you so much for your replies, everyone who has bothered. You've all helped a ton.

Racthoh · Oct 13, 2005, 08:49 PM // 20:49

The only reason for going 16 tactics over 14 would be for the skills with 8...18 seconds of duration. But, if you're just using Bonetti's, 14 would be enough to get its maximum duration of 11 seconds. Once you have it on, you can just attack with normal strikes to refill it before it goes out again. But, if you do decide to go with sword, 16 tactics all the way. Riposte and Deadly Riposte spike for 115 (I think, can't remember), and the added effect of bleeding. That's some nice damage for 4 adrenaline and 5 energy, and the added bonus of blocking nasty warrior skills

If you're looking for ways to get that first 8 adrenaline to get Bonetti's going, To The Limit! and For Great Justice! would fill it right there. Plus, using To The Limit prevents your adrenaline from dying out between fights even if there are no enemies around. Berserker's is a quick way as well to get that inital adrenaline to maintain a 75% block rate.

Personally, I'm a huge fan of Dolyak Signet and Watch Yourself both of which can be acquired eary on. Due to the recent boost in Dolyak Signet's AL boost, it can't be beat. There is what, one enemy in the game that uses Ignorance? And no amount of enchantment removal can remove it. Watch Yourself is a cheap way to maintain a constant +20 AL. Heck I don't even bother with stances anymore with the exception of aatxe in the UW simply because I can't outlast them.

Defy Pain is something I've wanted to toy with. +20 AL, and some addtional health by that doesn't really matter. Only takes 7 to fill it, and lasts for 12 so you could keep that constantly up. And again, it can't be removed, interrupted or whatever else your enemy may toss at you. Warrior's Endurance would allow you to use For Great Justice (for adrenaline purposes) and other you to take advantage of whatever high energy skills you choose from your secondary.

jesh · Oct 13, 2005, 09:11 PM // 21:11

Thanks a lot for the reply, Racthoh.

I'm not sure how many stances I'll have, seeing how I almost certainly need shadow of fear, enfeebling blood, plague touch, mark of pain.. that's 4 slots. The two ripostes are another 2 slots.. that gives me two left.

Hm... I've got to get rid of something, here. Er.. duh, I'll most likely have healing signet as well. Unless I take ViM. Or maybe that's too conditional?

I don't know, I'm lost. I know first hand how nice watch yourself can be, and I know my brother is a devout follower of dolyak signet. That plus Defy pain certainly would be funny. I might have to try that.

Maybe I could use to the limit, defy pain, the 2 ripostes, watch yourself, dolyak signet, bonetti's, plague touch... ? Wow, that's 1 necro skill. And it's unlinked. I could have gone w/mo with mend ailment, lol.

If anyone has a suggested skill bar, feel free to post it.

PS- On the ripostes.. I'm not really sure if I want to use the superior rune to get that effect.. I'll have to think about it, see if the extra damage is worth the loss in health.

Saba The Hobo · Oct 16, 2005, 01:33 AM // 01:33

If you're intent on tanking, I'd drop Plague Touch and Shadow of Fear, if only for energy conservation.

Seems that Shadow of Fear would be overkill if they're already weakened vs. your Watch Yourself! and Dolyak Signet (besides being 10 energy on a tiny energy pool). Plague Touch in that, if only so you can spam Deadly Riposte more often, without bottoming energy out every 4 seconds.

Bast · Oct 16, 2005, 02:13 AM // 02:13

All you really need to be a damage dealing semitank is Dolyak Signet, which is conveniently located in Strength. If you're going to use Bonettis, you'll want something like Hundred Blades (useless because it's at the end of the game) or Cyclone Axe to charge up the adrenaline. A lot of farmer solo builds use that combo, but they're usually W/Mo. I'll agree that the Sword line is much better suited to tanking than the Axe line is, mostly due to the Ripostes, however, going Axe gives you a good adrenaline gainer (Cyclone) very early in the game. That may balance out losing the Ripostes, at least in the early parts. Also, the Sever/Gash combo for swords is horrible and is useless against a large portion of the monsters in the game. Since you can't cause a skeleton to bleed, Gash is a dead skill slot.

As a W/N, you could fling some weakness around and save yourself some damage taken and heal yourself with "Victory is Mine!" but that doesn't show up until after Droknar's.

I'd go with axes.

Yukito Kunisaki · Oct 16, 2005, 04:13 AM // 04:13

Axes have no immunity. All enemies suffer deep wound ^_^ That's why I like axes...

However, as far as gaining adrenaline goes. To the Limit! is great as far as getting buried in a mob is concerned.

100 Blades does suck. I'll definitely admit that.

But as a damage type tank, you WANT to bring Enfeebling Blood combined with Victory is Mine!! Just as you get mobbed, you should be able to punch the whole enemy squad with weakness and blam, ViM!! to get your energy back, then cast mark of Pain and let the bodies start dropping...